Transcript - ABC Radio Sydney Mornings - 17 October 2025

Melissa McIntosh MP
Shadow Minister for Communications
Shadow Minister for Women
Federal Member for Lindsay

17 October 2025

Transcript

ABC Radio Sydney Mornings with Hamish Macdonald

Topics: Optus meeting; Triple Zero outages; deepfakes; Gaza; peacekeeping; President Trump meeting.

E&OE …

Hamish Macdonald

Shadow Communications Minister, Melissa McIntosh, is also the Member for Lindsay here in Sydney. She actually met with the boss of Optus, Stephen Rue, this week. Good morning to you, Melissa.

Melissa McIntosh

Good morning, Hamish.

Macdonald

I know you had had some difficulty getting this meeting. Did you come away better informed? Do you understand where Optus is coming from? Are you satisfied that they're on top of this problem?

McIntosh

No, no and no. Thank you for that question because I have been pushing really hard and Optus only really wanted to give me the government relations person and we put some pressure on because I did have some, I feel, important questions on behalf of Australians, like how can this even happen in a big organisation like Optus?

And in our discussion, and the CEO didn't want to say much to me yesterday before the investigation - it's a process issue and it's human error. So basically, somebody has stuffed up and how can somebody mess their job up so badly that it results in an outage where hundreds of people couldn't call Triple Zero and sadly, people lost their lives? That's not good enough.

And as you said in your opening, it's not just Optus experiencing these outages, it's across the board. And that's why I've been fighting really hard for an independent investigation. I don't think it's good enough that the government's put up ACMA, the regulator, when they're actually involved with the failed process.

Macdonald

I know you've expressed a view that the penalties for Triple Zero outages are too low. What are the penalties currently? What do you think they should be?

McIntosh

I asked the Optus CEO yesterday. You can imagine he was really enthusiastic when I asked if his penalty should go from $10 million, which is about to come into place, to $20 million. He didn't express my views that that should happen, but I think we need to do everything we can. It’s not working now. Whatever the penalties are on these big telcos, these things are still happening. So if it's no changes at $10 million, well, let's double that. Let's do anything we can to make sure Australians can make that call. And I asked him another question around the preparedness of Optus and his confidence approaching the disaster season and that this isn't going to happen when we have bushfires and all sorts of things going on. And I didn't get a satisfactory answer on that too. And it's not just Optus. Again, is Telstra ready, TPG, all the telco's ready for the upcoming season?

Macdonald

Isn't there a broader issue though here, Melissa McIntosh, which dates back well beyond this government around the network changes that all of the telecom companies have been involved with which means that there are big black spots not just in regional and rural areas but on the fringes of big cities like Sydney? You represent an electorate that has some sort of rural urban fringe areas in it. We hear all the time from people right here in Sydney saying look, if there was an emergency, if there was a bushfire, if there was a flood, I know I wouldn't be able to get through.

McIntosh

You’re right. And the telcos, when I spoke with them, I spoke with TPG the other week, the CEO there who was happy to have a meeting, did express concern around the changes in technology. And because of what has been going on quite quickly over recent times, there are gaps and of course the infrastructure upgrades need funding, government funding, so those towers need to be maintained and the Nats have a big, you know, have a big push on that and we've got a Regional Shadow Communications Minister particularly looking at this.

And now we have satellites in the sky, and these satellites aren't Australian owned, they're foreign satellites. So, when we have more reliance on them, is that going to cause more issues? So, it's very complex, it's highly regulated, but there are gaps and things are happening that shouldn't be happening.

Macdonald

I know this sort of become a bit of a political football. I'm just trying to explore whether actually governments over time haven't really thought some of this stuff through properly in terms of what obligations they impose on the telecoms as they do upgrade that technology and as you pointed out, build out the infrastructure.

Like I remember covering the Lismore floods a couple of years ago. Communities that were cut off, the ADF hadn't arrived, no one was there to help them. The one thing they did have was Starlink provided by Elon Musk.

McIntosh

Yep, you're right and I think you're right on that. And you're also right on asking questions around governments. I'm concerned around regulation that may not be working. So, they are - the telco sector is the most highly regulated, but is it the right regulation? Is it time that we have a real look into whether what government is doing to regulate is effective?

We now have a Custodian coming in, which is the Secretary of the Department of Communications, overseeing ACMA, the regulator. And this was a big thing. We had legislation going through, pushed really fast through Parliament - excuse me - on this, but is that going to change the outcome? Does it make it more effective and the system robust?

I don't know if that is the answer. I think that's why we need to have an inquiry and a Senate inquiry to look into the whole ecosystem, from the handsets to the satellites to, you know, to the telco providers to the regulation and really get to the depth of this.

Macdonald

Melissa McIntosh is here, Shadow Communications Minister, Member for Lindsay here in Sydney. You will have seen this in the news. We've been hearing all morning. New South Wales Police are investigating these reports that deepfake pornography images have been generated using the faces of female students from one Sydney high school. Allegedly, they're being circulated online.

What do you make of this in your Shadow Communications - with that that hat on?

McIntosh

Yeah, and my mum hat on. Like, it's just - that's the most scary thing for a parent to think that that could happen to your child or to anyone. And it is really serious issue and it's abhorrent. And the government announced in September they would restrict access to apps that create these gross images and nudity and all those sorts of things. And I'd like to see that happen quite quickly. And the states have their laws. We just need to do everything we can to protect people, particularly when it's deep fakes, it's not their images. This can ruin lives and particularly young teenage girls getting caught up in this. It's a very deep issue. It's a real horrible issue and involves schools, involves the law, and it does involve governments to do their job.

Macdonald

But the New South Wales Government had already taken action. Laws passed State Parliament last month outlawing the creation of deep fake pornography images. Is the law capable of keeping on top of this?

McIntosh

It's really hard, Hamish, as you know, that law, governments are doing everything they can. It's almost like playing catch up in some ways, whack a mole that these issues emerge so quickly. And now we have AI coming on so fast that we need to protect our citizens. But the laws, you know, may not be doing that quick enough.

So, there is a responsibility on the platforms as well to, you know, do what they can and perhaps they are not at this stage. So, I'd like to see - there's a work that's getting done on Digital Duty of Care by the Albanese Government and the previous Minister promised that last year. It's been a year. I'd like to see this addressed in that and that to happen quickly.

Macdonald

Melissa McIntosh, I know this is outside of your portfolio, but we're seeing reports this morning, confirmation, in fact, from the Army Chief of Joint Operations, Vice Admiral Justin Jones, that he held a teleconference with his US counterparts this week about the possibility of our troops heading to Gaza in some kind of peacekeeping role as part of this international stabilisation force. Obviously, that would be a decision for the government. Does the Opposition support that?

McIntosh

It's a big decision for the government because they're our troops and the Coalition's position is that there shouldn't be any commitment on the ground before Hamas is dismantled. And we've seen over the last days, you know, executions in public. It's really unstable. So …

Macdonald

And how do you get ...

McIntosh

It needs to be in our national interest if any troops were sent there.

Macdonald

But how do you get both Israeli forces out and Hamas out without an international force?

McIntosh

Well, we didn't even participate in the peace summit in Egypt, so why does Australia have to step in? I think it's really important that there is stabilisation there before any Australian troops are committed and our Prime Minister is off overseas again. He needs to be focused on the big issues impacting Australians at home.

Macdonald

Well, hang on.

McIntosh

It's a really good question. He needs …

Macdonald

He's about to go to Washington for a meeting with Donald Trump,

McIntosh

He’s not there now though, is he?

Macdonald

Which your party has been saying that he needed to do all year.

McIntosh

Good on him. Good on him. Let's see that. How many days have we been waiting and maybe these big questions need to be discussed, these really important issues. And I hope the Prime Minister has our best interest at heart and it's a - it's been a long awaited meeting and we do support him meeting with the President.

Macdonald

Melissa McIntosh, thank you very much.

McIntosh

Thank you, Hamish.