Transcript - ABC Insiders - 12 October 2025

Melissa McIntosh MP
Shadow Minister for Communications
Shadow Minister for Women
Federal Member for Lindsay

12 October 2025

Transcript

ABC Insiders with David Speers

Topics: Peace deal; Optus; Coalition; Migration

David Speers:                       

Melissa McIntosh welcome to the program

Melissa McIntosh:   

Thank you, David.

David Speers:

As Donald Trump said that Israel can't fight the world. Do you agree the global pressure on Israel did play a role in this outcome?

Melissa McIntosh:

I think the credit really has to go to Trump and I find it quite extraordinary, but pretty typical of Labor to be hoodwinking, as they do, Australians to claim some of this. We've got to remember that the US administration was not happy, with Australia when we made our declaration, our position. So, to come now and say that we are out of step with the rest of the world. Penny Wong, it was in your opening. Well, I think they've been out of step with our greatest ally for some time, and now with this US trip coming up, I think they're trying to make some ground on their relationship.

David Speers:

Look, the Coalition here has not been putting pressure on Israel for the last two years. But again, do you think the pressure globally, that was there on Israel, has helped lead to this ceasefire?

Melissa McIntosh:

I think certainly there's been a lot of global effort and concern, and I think there'll be a lot of global celebration when those hostages do come home. And I think that's the moment we're all waiting for now, is to see those families embrace their loved ones. But as I said, certainly global recognition, global pressure. But for Australia specifically, to claim credit, is quite an extraordinary position. And we have just had October 7^th, and I think one of your guests mentioned this and it's right, may have been Paul, that the government didn't need to make that claim. They could have been quiet about it and just accepted that this is Trump's moment.

David Speers:

Yes, but again, there's been no pressure from the Coalition on Israel over the last two years. Do you think Benjamin Netanyahu's actions in Gaza have been entirely justified?

Melissa McIntosh:

It was always going to be about bringing the hostages home. We've got to remember where this began. It was Hamas, a terrorist organisation, slaughtering over a thousand Jewish people. You know, this is where it all started. And you know, the Coalition now is pleased that we've gotten to this stage where it looks like we may have a ceasefire and peace in the Middle East, and that's what we're all cheering for.

David Speers:

Let me just ask you on a two-state solution. Donald Trump has said that he doesn't have a view on a two-state solution. Do you?

Melissa McIntosh:

The Coalition has always had the same position that the government broke away from a two-state solution once the hostages were returned and peace was on its way.

David Speers:

Do you support a two-state solution?

Melissa McIntosh:

Our position hasn't changed on that. But once the, the hostages were returned home.

David Speers:

Just to let viewers know, what's the position?

Melissa McIntosh:

Our position was not with the government when they broke away and wanted Palestine to be recognised prior to the hostages being returned home, prior to there being peace. Our position has not changed.

David Speers:

But what is your position?

Melissa McIntosh:

That's what I'm saying, our position has not changed.

David Speers:

So, what is it?

Melissa McIntosh:

Of course, we've always had a two-state solution, once there was peace and the hostages were returned home.

David Speers:

So, it's okay to have a different position?

Melissa McIntosh:

There's been no, there's been no change.

David Speers:

No. Okay, I understand that. So, it's okay to have a different position of Donald Trump to the US on the Middle East?

Melissa McIntosh:

Well, it's up to Donald Trump to have his position. And right now, our focus is on the ceasefire. We haven't changed our position in the Coalition, it's the government that changed a very long standing, bipartisan position.

David Speers:

But just to be clear, when it comes to the end game here, it's okay to have a different position to the US when it comes to a two-state solution.

Melissa McIntosh:

Well, we're our own sovereign country. We can have our own opinions. It doesn't mean we're not standing with our greatest allies. We should very much be in lockstep.

David Speers:

You don't need to be in lockstep. You don't need to be in lockstep on that.

Melissa McIntosh:

On the broader issues yes, but on this particular one, we've had our position for a very long time.

David Speers:

It’s a pretty big issue.

Melissa McIntosh:

..and I have no indication that it's changing.

David Speers:

Okay, let's move on to the Optus triple zero outage last month. Is the Coalition trying to blame the government at all for what happened?

Melissa McIntosh:

David, four people have died. They couldn't ring triple zero. It's not about blaming - it's about doing everything we can as an opposition to make sure this never happens again. The government's number one responsibility is to protect its citizens, and people, when they are in their greatest time of need, at a bare minimum, should be able to pick up the phone and make that call. There was a technical disaster with Optus, but there's also been a regulatory disaster with the government. So, we've been working hard over the last week, in particular in Parliament. I suspended standing orders to have an inquiry. I think that is important now, particularly seeing that Optus has $900 million in government contracts have gone to Optus since the 2023 outage. So, there's a lot of work that needs to be done, and you know, we've reached out our hands to help and I hope the government continues to work with us, because they haven't done so yet.

David Speers:

When you look historically at the Coalition's position, it's always been that the industry should self-regulate. There was a much bigger Triple Zero outage at Telstra when the Coalition was in government back in 2018, fortunately no lives lost, but some 1400 triple zero calls couldn't get through. There was no move to impose tougher government regulation, and even earlier this year, when the government said these regulations would take effect in November, the Coalition didn't suggest it should happen earlier. So, what has changed? Are you now saying there does need to be much greater government role in regulating Triple Zero?

Melissa McIntosh:

I'm not one that's for regulating for the sake of regulating, and the telco industry is one of the most heavily regulated industries and I question whether having the custodian in the Department of Communications would be the most effective thing to do because it's more regulation over ACMA. But we have to try something. Some of the recommended recommendations I've made is to have a public register so every single Australian can see when there's an outage. Let's lift the fines, because whatever these companies are getting fined right now, it seems to be not enough because we've just had people die. So, I am all for doubling the fine on these telco companies and I would like to see it listed as critical infrastructure - the Triple Zero network specifically. So, it's not just about regulation for regulation's sake, let's pull every single lever we can to ensure this does not happen again. You've got to remember the government didn't do very much in those first weeks, the Minister left the country and went overseas while the crisis was unfolding. And we've been working hard to offer solutions - asking for an inquiry, making amendments in Parliament, pushing really hard for a public, thorough, independent investigation. Not ACMA, the regulator, which is very heavily involved in this outage.

David Speers:

Is that a Senate inquiry? Are you supporting a Senate inquiry that the Greens are talking about?

Melissa McIntosh:

Yeah, I'd like to see that get off the ground. We wanted a House inquiry, but if we can get something up in the Senate and we can ask questions around why is Optus getting these big government contracts still after what's been going on? Is the regulation going to prevent another outage?

David Speers:

Should they stop? Are you saying Optus contracts should be cancelled?

Melissa McIntosh:

Well, I question how you can get hundreds of millions of dollars in contracts and then get fined, potentially hundreds of millions of dollars for failing Australians at the same time. I think most Australians will question whether the ethical nature of that, I would like to see that included in any inquiry through the Parliament.

David Speers:

Ok, so a Senate inquiry should also look at government contracts to Optus and whether they should be torn up.

Melissa McIntosh:

I think Australians would rightly want government contracts to be looked at and whether it's appropriate that big companies that do wrong, in such a way as what has happened over these last few weeks, actually receive those contracts, yes of course.

David Speers:

Ok. Just to be clear, though, on the outage that happened in September, if Optus itself didn't know on, I think it was the 18th of September, the Thursday, the extent of what had happened, didn't know until the next day. Is there anything the sort of tougher regulations we're talking about here would have done to change this?

Melissa McIntosh:

And you're right, David. We need to ensure that the regulations that are in place will prevent something like this happening again. Optus didn't know the outage happened and then there was an email that went to ACMA, the regulator, went to the Minister's office and went to the department. It seems no one could read an email, or open an email, because they're all claiming they didn't know about it.

David Speers:

But that email had incorrect information saying only 10 calls have been affected and everything was rectified.

Melissa McIntosh:

It doesn't matter if it's 10 calls or if it's 600 calls. When welfare checks are needing to be made, people's lives could still be at risk. The fact that you don't respond to an email is extraordinary. So, we need to ensure whatever is in place is strong enough, robust enough, and actually gets to the bottom of why this happened and stops it happening again.

David Speers:

I want to turn to the challenges facing your party, Melissa McIntosh. After the election earlier this year, one of the things you talked about was changing the culture in the Liberal Party in relation to getting more women in Parliament. You said you were open to the idea of quotas, so did Susan Ley, is this going anywhere? Is there anything happening since then?

Melissa McIntosh:

I think I said it will be a continuing revolving door of women if we don't address the culture, and we can have all the quotas in the world, but it wouldn't matter. Culture's so important in the Liberal Party. How we treat each other within the party, how we treat women as they're coming through the ranks - and I would like to see more change. It's not going to happen overnight. I wish I could say to you, since the election that's all hunky dory, everything's amazing in the Liberal Party, that wouldn't be telling you the truth, but I have a particular focus, being Shadow Minister for Women, to do what I can. And I hope the report when it comes out, the review points to some of the practical measures we can start putting in place.

David Speers:

You're the member for Lindsay in Western Sydney. I'm just keen for your view on the migration debate that's raging in your party as well. Do you share Andrew Hastie's concern that Australians are feeling like strangers in their home, or is your immigration spokesman Paul Scarr right when he says we need a more measured debate on immigration?

Melissa McIntosh:

In some ways I agree with both of them, and I don't in any way want to shape the migration debate around race. I've got a wonderful multicultural community in Western Sydney and I come from a migrant background, as many of us do. But in Western Sydney, we do feel the strains of population growth. I have a public hospital right in my electorate that is bursting at the seams and every one of your viewers would know how hard it is. Infrastructure pressures on our roads, we have an international airport coming in and housing in-affordability. So that part of the debate is very real, but it is just one part of the debate. But we do have a beautiful multicultural community at the same time.

David Speers:

You don't feel like a stranger?

Melissa McIntosh:

No. I think Western Sydney, where I am, is the best place in the country, and it is built on all sorts of people coming here to make a better life for their family. And I think everyone should feel always, always at home in Australia.

David Speers:

Just a final question on this. I mean, there are very different views in your party on migration, on climate, on the role of government in supporting manufacturing and so on. There is some talk about whether the Liberal Party can hold together. What do you think? Is there any potential that the Liberal Party itself, splits?

Melissa McIntosh:

We have to hold it together, and I think the last week proved that when we focus on policy, and focus on holding the government to account, we can make some way, and you know I feel strongly about that. We wouldn't have gotten anywhere with Optus if we weren't focused on the government, not ourselves. We have our beliefs and our values and I think we don't need to go much deeper than remembering what they are, and we have always had moderates in the party, very conservative people in the party, and if we can just work through our differences, I think the future - I could be a little bit optimistic here, and I feel like the media might be a bit more focused on this issue than us - the future is bright for the Liberal party.

David Speers:

Alright, Melissa McIntosh, thanks very much for joining us.

Melissa McIntosh:

Thanks David.