Transcript - ABC Afternoon Briefing with Melissa Clarke - 16 September 2025

Melissa McIntosh MP
Shadow Minister for Communications
Shadow Minister for Women
Federal Member for Lindsay

16 September 2025

EO&E …

ABC Afternoon Briefing with Melissa Clarke

Topics: Social media age minimum; Digital ID; eSafety Commissioner; Communications sovereignty; data centres; AI; energy security; net zero; Andrew Hastie.

 Melissa Clarke

Let's bring in the Shadow Communications Minister, Melissa McIntosh. Melissa, thanks so much for joining us on Afternoon Briefing.

Melissa McIntosh

Thank you.

Melissa Clarke

Now, the Federal Government's released these guidelines for social media companies. What do you make of them?

Melissa McIntosh

We have to remember the intent of this at the very start when we announced the policy before the election was to protect our children, and I made a commitment to families who came to Canberra that we would do everything we could. These families had lost their children to social media harm, and they weren't convinced when they met with the Prime Minister and the Communications Minister that the government would be ready for this ban to come into place. What's been said today in this announcement shows that there is concern the government is stepping back a bit on the requirements of these social media companies to identify children under 16, I'm concerned that it will get to a stage where digital ID may need to be used. The eSafety Commissioner does have the power to have ID, digital ID. Uh, as a requirement if other measures fall through. So, the issue here that there's so many questions.

Melissa Clarke

Just let's go to that. Let's go to that point of what the verification is that's required. And under these guidelines, it makes it clear that social media companies can use a variety of verification. Means it can be through facial recognition type technology. It can be through, documents, as you say, digital ID being one option, but not an exclusive option. It says it can look at other things like monitoring how language and emojis are being used and posting histories to make verification. So, there's a whole suite of options that can be used. So why - what's your basis for suggesting that the government is going to narrow things down to a government ID requirement?

Melissa McIntosh

No, it's not about narrowing it down. It's that there is a power there, that it could be an option if required. So there are estimations there, you know, a kid that has only had an account open for one to 10 years or what they're searching online, of course. But at the end of the day, the eSafety Commissioner does have that power. Should she choose to use it. It doesn't matter whether she says she won't use it, she does have that power that digital ID may be an option. But we're sort of going - we're stepping into the territory of people's freedoms. As adults, we want this to work. We want kids to be protected online. It's abhorrent, what they've got access to, and you know, inappropriate content, bullying on the other.

Melissa Clarke

Well, let's go to that detail of what you are concerned about. You're saying you're worried about an infringing on the rights or access for others. I mean, these guidelines make it clear. The social media companies don't have to impose age testing on everyone. They just need to show that they're reasonably trying to prevent under sixteens from targeting it. So, isn't that a good guideline for the government to give to address precisely those concerns?

Melissa McIntosh

What I was going to say if I was able to finish the sentence was, I don't want adults to get so fed up with potentially having to have digital ID as an option that the intent of protecting our kids just gets lost. We need to have these two separate conversations, and right now there is a risk that adults won't want to have their privacy impinged on. That's fair enough, but at the same time, we need to protect our kids. But on that, your question around, you know, the companies just have to show reasonable measures: does that mean going through everyone's accounts and seeing who's under 16 or not? There's just so many questions and we are so close to the deadline. We want the outcome to be that Australian kids are protected, and I'm not certain that the government's got all their ducks in a row to get this right.

Melissa Clarke

I just really want to focus on that point since you raise it as a key objection. The guidelines specifically say providers should offer a choice between a range of age assurance measures. So doesn't that ameliorate the exact concern that you're worried about, that people might feel compelled to have to give a digital ID. The guidelines specifically say the companies have to provide a range of options. That's a good guideline for your concern, isn't it?

Melissa McIntosh

I think that's also tricky language. They can get to the stage where they could request digital identification. It says they have to provide a choice, but what's stopping them getting to that end stage? And where does our data go? So, if we do get to digital ID, majority of data is being stored offshore. What are the protections in place to secure Australians’ data when it does go to these big tech companies.

Melissa Clarke

Let's come back.

Melissa McIntosh

We might own our data.

Melissa Clarke

Let's get back to that in a minute.

Melissa McIntosh

It's an important point. I know you've made some good points about that, but just on the guidelines that have been announced today, which are clearly really important, the eSafety Commissioner Julie Inman Grant has pointed to companies that are behind, Roblox behind, Reddit and others saying they've already implemented age verification measures in recent weeks that are adequate, that are designed to make sure there aren't young account holders where there shouldn't be. Isn't that evidence that the government's policy is already working as intended?

Melissa McIntosh

Well, we are going to see that on the tenth of December, aren't we? When this comes into play. Something that those families raised with me was that they didn't have confidence that families were educated. This is coming, it's happening over the Christmas holidays when children may usually be attached to their phones. Schools aren't aware. We may all be aware because we're involved in this issue. Schools aren't aware and the kids aren't aware either. They're going - some of these parents go around to schools now they've lost their children to try and ensure that no other child is lost and they're just aghast that people are just not aware this is coming. So, I do - we do hope it works out because we do want to protect Australian children. I'm doing my job in holding the government to account and ensuring that it meets its promises that it's made to every family across this country.

Melissa Clarke

Now, under these guidelines, there isn't a specification of a minimum level of accuracy that the tech companies have to meet. Is that leaving too much wriggle room or is that a practical necessity for introducing something like this?

Melissa McIntosh

Well, this is the question it seems like, and I said to you, the government seems to be stepping back a little bit around what that reasonable measure is. You know, what's going to happen on the tenth of December? Are they going to allow some time for take up? Is it - does it mean that they're going to start going through people's accounts to check people's ID stuffing through private information? I don't know. There's just so many questions. Every time the government makes announcement, things seem to have shifted a bit. As I said, the eSafety Commissioner has a lot of power and we just want to make sure this works for Australian children.

Melissa Clarke

Now, you mentioned you're concerned around digital sovereignty, particularly with data being held offshore. What is it you would like to see the government do to better safeguard Australians’ data that might be being held in cloud servers offshore?

Melissa McIntosh

This forms part of a bigger piece around our nation's future and protecting our country, our communication sovereignty, and the heart of that is data. Our data is being stored in foreign servers. People in Australia wouldn't even know, like I've spoken to older people in a retirement village yesterday - asked if they knew where their data was or not. No one knows. So, Australians have a right to know where their data is being stored, how it's protected, and that, you know, if there's an issue that arises, it may be their data, but it might be under foreign control. So, what rights do they have as an individual in Australia? I want our data to be here in data centres in this country, but that goes to the next issue in that you need power. You need power for these data centres. So, there's a huge sovereign piece from the foreign satellites in our skies to the foreign data centres that are storing our information that we should be really addressing as a country right now, looking at the future.

Melissa Clarke

Alright, well let's turn to climate policy briefly. The Liberal Party’s in the middle of reviewing its policy decisions on emissions reduction and energy. Now, Andrew Hastie has said that because he's been a vocal opponent of the net zero by 2050 target, he won't be able to stay in the Shadow Ministry if the party decides to stick with the target. Do you see it that way? Is that a requirement now for anyone who's advocated to get rid of net zero? If the party lands to keep that policy, do those members need to move to the back bench?

Melissa McIntosh

Well it's great that we are in a democracy and people are able to exercise their views and Andrew is absolutely right to be able to do that because we haven't settled on a policy yet. And he's been very clear after speaking with his community that he's representing his community's views and that's what any good Member of Parliament does. That's what I'm going to be doing. I'm actually in the middle of speaking to my community about these issues, and what they would like me to do in representing them, and then I'll be taking that through the processes of our party room.

Melissa Clarke

We have Andrew Hastie speaking very publicly. He's not doing it through the formal process. He's speaking very publicly about his views. Is he trying to force the party through his public comments to land on the policy position that he wants to see?

Melissa McIntosh

As I said in the Liberal Party, we are about individuals who are able to express their views, unlike the Labor Party who you’d be stifled, if you had an opposing view. And we haven't settled on a policy yet, so this is a perfect time for someone to express their views if they are expressing the views of their community, and Andrew has made those views very clear and the way that he does that is up to him. For me, I'm going to my community. We are struggling so much right now under high power prices, cost of living is the top issue that people are facing right now. And that $275 promise people are paying, you know, 30% more, and this is in Western Sydney. And this issue has not gone away. And the government is not addressing it. So, it's very right to be in with your community and finding out what concerns the most and expressing that as a good Member of Parliament.

Melissa Clarke

So, given your concerns and what you're hearing from your community, do you think the Opposition would be better at this point talking about what the 2035 targets should be or about the National Climate Risk Assessment rather than the push to scrap net zero? Because that seems to be where most of the discussion of the Liberals, at least publicly, that we are hearing. Is that the wrong focus?

Melissa McIntosh

So that risk assessment that says 1.5 million homes are at risk. So, if you could tell me how the Albanese Labor Government's policies around net zero are going to save those 1.5 million homes. When we have only 1% of emissions, then I think that's the biggest question: how is the government's policies, which we are waiting to hear about their targets, are going to make any impact on anything that is in that report? For me right now, the biggest issue for my people in my community is the way that they're struggling under cost of living. They want to do the right thing. They do have solar panels on their roofs. We've got a high take up. They can't afford the batteries, they can't afford their electricity, and we need to be looking at all the options.

Melissa Clarke

Alright, Melissa McIntosh, thanks so much for running through all of those issues with me.

Melissa McIntosh

Thanks very much.