Transcript - 2SM Mornings - 21 October 2025

Melissa McIntosh MP
Shadow Minister for Communications
Shadow Minister for Women
Federal Member for Lindsay

21 October 2025

Subject: Penrith Stadium; Trump meeting; Kevin Rudd; Teal funds; immigration.

2SM Breakfast with Chris Smith

E&OE … 

Chris Smith

Melissa McIntosh joins us right now. The pollie from Penrith. Morning, Melissa.

Melissa McIntosh

Thank you. I used to dance to Footloose with a ghetto blaster in the schoolyard in the 80s.

Smith

Did you really? Have you got any vision that we could put on social media and show the world?

McIntosh

Thank goodness phones with cameras weren't invented then.

Smith

Hey, talking all things Panthers, how's construction going on your new stadium?

McIntosh

It's flattened at the moment, so I think we're all really looking forward to that new stadium being built. And, you know, my favourite part is getting on the hill - with the rest of the stadium's beautiful - but getting on the hill with the rest of Penrith. So many memories there, so we look forward to construction happening.

Smith

Alright.

McIntosh

Let's get back out there and win some games now.

Smith

You've had enough premierships for the next 20 years. Get serious. You've got to spread the wealth around.

McIntosh

We'll do it for this year only.

Smith

Okay, Anthony Albanese was not ambushed by Donald Trump as he's done with some other politically unaligned leaders. So, he's probably breathing a sigh of relief. It's a little bit better than that. He's probably quite chuffed at what has been achieved. Does he deserve credit?

McIntosh

I think it more shows the strength of our relationship with the US over many, many years and it goes above and beyond, you know, the politics of the day, or the Prime Minister of the day may not go beyond the ambassador of the day, as we saw with the Trump comments, but it is more in the strength we have had the alliance for so long with partners in defence, in culture and everything.

I worked at the US Studies Centre at Sydney Uni before I went into politics and we worked really hard also on that relationship. So, it is above politics. So, I guess the PM will maximise it as much as he can. It was a really important meeting. We've been waiting too long for it to happen. It should have happened earlier than now.

And, you know, in all honesty, he did come out with the signing of critical minerals, but we still have tariffs, so why didn't that get hooked in? So, the US is doing well out of this. Why didn't we come out of there with steel and aluminium tariffs reduced like other countries?

I think that's really important for our manufacturing in this country.

Smith

Good point. In many ways, it was once again Australia's mineral strength, which counted for plenty in the eyes of the United States.

McIntosh

That's right. We've got an abundance of critical minerals, rare, and the US needs us and we need those strong, secure partnerships. So, I think the Prime Minister should have gone in there with more confidence and pushed harder on getting those tariffs removed. But as far as we can see, this is a - and this is the bureaucracy that goes on behind the politics. These are deals that have been done over many, many years. So, the Prime Minister shouldn't be -  it's somewhat of a win for him, I guess, but it's a bigger win for our country and the work that gets done. On the relationship, as I said, behind the scenes.

Smith

Okay, you mentioned the Rudd factor. Let's just remind our audience again what happened between Kevin Rudd and Donald Trump:

Andrew Clennell

Taken nine months to get this meeting. Have you had any concerns with this Administration, with stance on Palestine, climate change, or even things the ambassador said about you in the past, the Australian ambassador?

Donald Trump

I don't know anything about him. I mean, if he said bad, then maybe he'll like to apologise. I really don't know. Did an ambassador say something bad about me? Don't tell me. Where is he? Is he still working for you?

Anthony Albanese

Yeah, yeah. Right there.

Donald Trump

You said bad.

Kevin Rudd

Before I took this position, Mr President.

Donald Trump

I don't like you either. I don't and I probably never will.

Sussan Ley, your leader says that Rudd should be returned home.

McIntosh

Do we want him? I don't know.

Smith

Leave him where he is. That's a great response.

McIntosh

I think, as we all remember, he wasn't particularly likeable as Prime Minister when we got to the real Rudd. And it's really pretty embarrassing for him to be highlighted by the President in that way.

Smith

But maybe he's changed his view about Donald Trump, Melissa. Maybe he really thinks that he's one of the greatest leaders of all time. And maybe when he said sorry to the President at the end of that meeting, he really meant it from the depths of his heart.

McIntosh

Well, let's see his posts on social media, if he can keep that going for some time. I don't know. He had some pretty strong views on the President. And do you really change all that much? I think it's just circumstantial now he's in that position. It is unfortunate that he - the President said he doesn't like our ambassador, which is our representative in the United States. So …

Smith

I'm with you. Just leave him right where he is in Washington. We don't want to see him here. No, no, you're right.

Political hypocrisy irks Australian voters a lot, I think. And today we learnt that the Teal MPs, despite their demonising of fossil fuels. Our only source of baseload power have been the recipients of $666,000 in donations from a fund manager who deals in exactly those stocks, fossil fuels. I would have thought the likes of Zali Steggall, Nicolette Boele, Sophie Scamps and Allegra Spender have some explaining to do today, wouldn't you?

McIntosh

I think they do because they are always on their high horses about this sort of issue with donations and not and where those donations come from. They're constantly going on about it and they also talk about the need for transparency and now we've discovered there's $27 million going to the independents at the last election campaign, including like what you just said. So, there is hypocrisy in that movement and there is a lack of transparency, which is everything that they campaign on. How, you know, how enlightening. I hope that …

Smith

Whenever they get into strife, whenever they get into strife, there's no transparency because they go into hiding.

McIntosh

They're pretty good at that, aren't they?

Smith

Yeah.

McIntosh

I wonder what the voters think of that because they are voting on a cause. So, they are all high mighty on climate and then you hear that they're taking money from people that are involved in everything that they oppose. So, I think their voters really deserve to know the truth behind these donations.

Smith

Yeah, maybe some of our listeners could comment on what we've discovered today. Is it political hypocrisy? Does it surprise you? And maybe they should, as a party, although they're not a party, as a party, start to say that they won't take donations of this kind.

One last one, Melissa. Economist Judith Sloane wrote a well researched piece today in The Australian about the facts surrounding immigration. How the system is being rorted by too many students, how multiculturalism has not been without its problems, especially more recently, and how the Liberal Party should not run scared of having a debate about more sustainable numbers. Where do you stand on our record mass immigration numbers at the moment?

McIntosh

Yeah, I like Judith's article and if people can read it, I think it's a good read.

There's one part in it that I disagree with her on where she said there's some Liberals that make the case for a lower rate of immigration, which is myself, and then there's others that cast doubt on the argument by talking about the role of migrants. I think you can do both because migrants do make up our great nation. It's when it starts getting into race and that's where it gets tricky.

But I've said before I'm in Western Sydney and we have so much pressure under population growth on our hospital, our schools, our roads, pothole roads not getting fixed. More and more people coming into Western Sydney. I think we do need to have that debate but with the emotion taken out of it, this is realistic. We go to a hospital, into the emergency department and it is packed. It is packed full of people. We are bursting at the seams, and I think it's a reasonable debate for us to be having.

Smith

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Good to have you on the program. All the very best. Keep out of that heat.

McIntosh

Thank you.

Smith

There's some hot days coming up still this week so it'll be nice and hot in Penrith I'd imagine.

McIntosh

Definitely. Definitely always is in Penrith.

Smith

Yes, exactly. Thank you, Melissa.

McIntosh

Thank you.