Transcript - 2CC Breakfast with Stephen Cenatiempo - 10 September 2025

Melissa McIntosh MP
Shadow Minister for Communications
Shadow Minister for Women
Federal Member for Lindsay

10 September 2025

EO&E …

Interview

2CC Breakfast with Stephen Cenatiempo

Topic: eSafety Commissioner; eSafety Commission inquiry; social media age minimum; ‘Let them be kids’ campaign; AI; deepfake apps; eSafety Commission codes.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Touched on this yesterday that the Coalition is calling for an inquiry into the powers of the eSafety Commissioner Julie Inman Grant, and whether or not her role is now fit for purpose. Now this is off the back of the social media ban that is about to come into effect for users age under 16. December 10 is when that plan will go into place which controversially now includes YouTube. Now I find this absolutely extraordinary that the change came following advice from the eSafety Commissioner to the Communications Minister Anika Wells and The Australian says, who was revealed to have used once YouTube as a way to entertain her young children. Well, anybody believes that she did it once, I've got a bridge that runs from North Sydney to the city in Sydney that I'll sell you for a really good price. Ad I got no problem that her kids watch YouTube. That's not what I'm saying here. To talk to us about this, we're joined by the Shadow Minister for Communications, Melissa McIntosh. Melissa, good morning.

Melissa McIntosh

Good morning. Thank you.

Stephen Cenatiempo  

This, why are we, I mean, there's no doubt that the eSafety Commissioner now has effectively more power than the Prime Minister. But surely outcomes are the real thing we should be looking at here?

Melissa McIntosh

Yeah, we can't forget that anything to do with social media bans or age assurance or even the eSafety Commissioner is about protecting our kids. And that is the priority of any government - is protecting our citizens and the most vulnerable. And our kids are top of the list. So, there is no questioning that we need to do that - and the risks of kids being online. What I'm questioning is the actual role of the eSafety Commissioner. It was established a decade ago. The world is a very different place now. She has extraordinary powers. She's just released another six codes. There doesn't seem to be much transparency in the decision making behind codes. And I think it's a fair question to ask, ‘well, is her role fit for purpose? Should she have this much power over our country, including adults? And let's look into it a bit deeper.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Okay.

Melissa McIntosh

So how the outcome of that might be a better outcome.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Then how do we manage this? Because I have battled against this social media ban since it was first floated because there's a better way to do it. We have the foremost expert in the world when it comes to protecting kids online, and neither the Government or the Opposition wanted to talk to him. He's based here in Australia and operates in 40 states in the US, but apparently his advice wasn't good enough. I'm concerned that the Coalition went blindly into supporting this legislation and now after losing the election, is now trying to make it a fight.

Melissa McIntosh

I would love to speak to the expert that you have. I was not the Shadow Communications Minister when this was all decided. So, we have a new person in the role and I, you know, hand on my heart, I want this to work for our families. I met with the ‘Let them be kids' families who've lost their children …

Stephen Cenatiempo

Yeah.

Melissa McIntosh

… to social media harm. And I promised them when they came to Canberra last week, and it was extremely emotional that I would do everything I could to get this to work for Australian kids and families. There hasn't even been an education campaign. They're telling me that when they go around and visit schools, because that's what they do, they've lost their kids and they don't want to see any other child be lost to social media harm. Kids don't know it's coming. Families don't know it's coming. Schools don't know it's coming and it's actually coming during the school holidays which adds more complexity. So, we are in a place where the ban is happening, whether you support it or not. I have question marks around whether it's going to work, but I have promised these families that I'd hold the government to account, you know, as much as I can. But we also don't know what constitutes reasonable measures. What age assurance technology should be using this is happening in three months. It's a little bit extraordinary that we're in this place with so many questions. So, you're right; you're right to question whether this is (ended).

Stephen Cenatiempo

My biggest problem here is, and, this is not a criticism of the Coalition, it's a criticism of nearly everybody in the House, bar two MPs and I spoke to dozens of MPs and senators in the lead up to this legislation, and only two actually understood what I was saying to them when I relayed them to them. The advice that was given to me by Tim Levy, the owner of Qoria, this company that I'm talking about, he said, all we need to do is change ACCC regulations to allow parents to have the same protections on their devices that you as MPs have on your government provided devices. So, and I said this to of MPs and only two understood it, that you can't download TikTok onto your government issued phone, right?

Melissa McIntosh

Correct.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Because somebody in that building up there on the hill prevents you from doing it. But individuals don't have that same power. And with a change of ACCC regulation, we could make Apple and Google and the various platforms let mums and dads have that same power. And the problem solved without any legislation whatsoever.

Melissa McIntosh

Yeah, well that's a really interesting idea. We didn't talk before the election. I'm in this role now and I think from the TikTok perspective, yes, we can't have it on our phones. From the YouTube perspective I spoke, and my team spoke a lot, to YouTube prior to them being included. And we came up with some other ideas that we could potentially explore, including right now there's a restriction if you're 13 and under. Why don't we extend that to 16 and under when you have kids freely watching YouTube Now without any of the protections that they have by having an account and they can search all sorts of nasty things.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Yeah, I'm only using TikTok as an example because I know that it's been banned on government phones. I don’t know what other restrictions you have, but I just use that as an example. But basically, what this will allow parents to do is block any nefarious activity online. Whether it, and this is the thing that has only just been picked up now in one of these regulations that you're talking about is access to pornographic websites, which has seemed to be completely missed in all of this.

Melissa McIntosh

Pornographic websites, the fast-moving nature of AI and hearing that kids, you know, have best friend bots and the, you know, the language that's being used between children and AI is unacceptable. And also gambling, you know, access to games, you know, we haven't even looked at gaming or discussed that in this. Yeah, there's a lot of holes. But, I think, yeah, you're right - you're completely right in that we are now in a position where something may not work. We all want it to work and the best I can do as the Shadow Communications Minister is to hold the government to account and the promise that it's made to the Australian people and also look at what our policy might be going into the future on these very important issues.

Stephen Cenatiempo

With regards to the Office of the eSafety Commissioner, Melissa, do you see a role for something like that? Because, you say, you are inferring that the current version isn't fit for purpose, but do you think there is a role for an agency like that, or should it be operated out of the Communications Minister's office solely?

Melissa McIntosh

I'm not saying that her, the office itself, is not relevant or shouldn't be set up, but it's worth having a look at it and asking questions and probing into it, because as I've said many times, she's an unelected official with extreme powers.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Yeah, well as I’ve said …

Melissa McIntosh

And she’s not answerable to the Parliament or to the Australian people.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Well, I've said a couple of times this morning, she seems to have more power than the Prime Minister at the moment.

Melissa McIntosh

Yeah. Well we need some - we have to be very transparent and you know, the government went to two elections on transparency. And the decisions that the eSafety commissioner, and this is nothing personal, this is purely about the role and the power she has …

Stephen Cenatiempo

Yeah.

Melissa McIntosh

The decisions. There's no transparency. She doesn't have to reveal why she's made certain decisions and they're huge decisions that impact every Australian.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Yeah, absolutely.

Melissa McIntosh

So, I think it is very worth having an inquiry into the role and whether it is the right place to put it.

Stephen Cenatiempo

How successful do you think you'll be in getting it up?

Melissa McIntosh

Well, we had some luck getting, you know, supporting an inquiry into the age verification and the ban into the Senate. We did support something like this that just didn't get across the line. We can keep, you know, prosecuting. Will probably be a Senate inquiry. We just need to get enough support. We'll see.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Melissa, I appreciate your time this morning. Thanks for joining us.

Melissa McIntosh

Thank you.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Melissa McIntosh, the Shadow Minister for Communications.