ABC Radio Sydney – Mornings with Hamish Macdonald - 22 April 2026

Melissa McIntosh MP 

Shadow Minister for Families and Social Services

Shadow Minister for the NDIS

Shadow Minister for Women

Federal Member for Lindsay 

 

22 April 2026

 

Transcript 

 

ABC Radio Sydney – Mornings with Hamish Macdonald

 

Topics: NDIS

 

E&EO … 

 

 

Hamish Macdonald

Reform is coming to the National Disability Insurance Scheme, which the Government says will save billions of dollars in spending and curb the scheme's growth that currently cannot be sustained. The NDIS Minister, Mark Butler will set out the changes today at the National Press Club. This could lead to another feud, though, between the states and the Commonwealth. Here's what the New South Wales Premier, Chris Minns has had to say: “We can't have a situation where people are knocked off the NDIS, and then the state provides the service because it's still coming out of the same pockets of New South Wales taxpayers. So, we have to have a sustainable system. We want to do our bit. We recognize the need for reform, but

ultimately, we want to make sure people don't slip through the cracks”. That's the Premier Chris Minns there. Reports of fraud have been a key driver behind the scheme's recent reputational hit, and the Government's asked for a fresh parliamentary inquiry into the extent of rorting within the NDIS. Melissa McIntosh is the Shadow spokesperson for NDIS, also member for Lindsay in Western Sydney, very good morning to you, Melissa.

 

Melissa McIntosh

Good morning. Hamish, and to your listeners.

 

Hamish Macdonald

Broadly, are you supportive of reforms to reduce spending?

 

Melissa McIntosh

What I'm supportive of in the Coalition is cleaning up the NDIS. So, you've got to remember, there's vulnerable people at the heart of the NDIS. So every time, and even in your introduction, you talked about fraud and the states maybe not coming on, there are people on the NDIS who have severe disability, and this is life saving for them. And I'm hearing right now, my office since I've taken on this role, people have been pouring in with their plans being cut without any consultation. Then, as you said, on the other hand, we've got this mass fraud, and that's disgusting. Even in the paper today, if every one of your listeners read what's been going on, how people have been treated on the NDIS by these unregistered providers, they would be aghast, it is abominable. So yes, things need to change, but we need to remember that people are at the heart of this.

 

Hamish Macdonald

So, what's an example that you're thinking of when you say it's abominable? I mean, I'm aware that there are some social media influencers that have been sort of running a pretty concerted campaign to identify fraud within the NDIS. I suppose I'm curious about how much of that is legitimate, and how much of that is just sort of reputational damage.

 

Melissa McIntosh

Well, we know there's a lot of fraud going on. The Government, and this means the Australian taxpayers, is spending $5 billion a year fighting the rorting in the system, but it gets worse than that. It's not just about ripping off the taxpayers, there's reports today that at least 20 convicted criminals have been barred from working in the sector, and this is barred from the NDIS’s own Quality and Safeguards Commission, and one of those cases is an NDIS worker sexually assaulting an NDIS participant. But the issue here is there's very little information around what has occurred when someone is barred from the NDIS, very little information about their prior history if they've got any convictions, and then some of the barring’s that happen are not they're not forever, they could be three or five years, whatever the Commission decides. So, there is a big piece of work that needs to happen as a priority to clean up the system in that regard, and that's to protect vulnerable Australians and this is before we even start talking about the budget blowout of the NDIS, $50 billion a year of taxpayers' money being spent on it.

 

Hamish Macdonald

Melissa McIntosh is here the Opposition's NDIS spokesperson. To make this a little more simple for listeners, do you believe that the spending can be tamed, without kicking groups out of the NDIS? Or do you think that actually, ultimately, it's going to be more than just dealing with fraud and providers that perhaps various groups may need to be dealt with, or treated in different ways?

 

Melissa McIntosh

Yes, there's the NDIS certainly has grown to something that it wasn't intended to be with more participants on the system, and you heard Chris Minns talk about the states, the Thriving Kids, so kids with low levels of autism may be going across the states, and the states are not particularly happy with that. So, in addition to young people, it's grown in that psychosocial services have gone from the state - so this could be people that have schizophrenia, gone from being looked after by the states onto the NDIS. This has contributed to some of the blowout, and now the Government's trying to save money it's like, well, we don't want psychosocial anymore, we're going to push it back to the states, and this is where the risk is that people falling through the cracks and not getting looked after at all.

 

Hamish Macdonald

But I mean, might a state-based service for psychosocial issues work better?

 

Melissa McIntosh

Well, that's where it sat originally and potentially, yes, but the states have to be willing to pick it up and you can see, even with mild levels of autism amongst kids, the states aren't particularly willing to do that. It's reported all over the media today. You’ve heard it from Chris Minns himself. So if the states aren't willing to pick up these services, then people fall through the cracks and with psychosocial we can see it playing out in the streets. You've been to my patch, people with severe mental health issues, they then go to the local hospital, clog up the system or can't get looked after in the mental health units, they're back on the streets, and it's this terrible round about that they never get looked after.

 

Hamish Macdonald

Understood, but any big system like this is going to have its issues, and I suppose I'm really curious about whether or not the political discussion is driven perhaps, in an overrepresented way, by these social media influencers that are sort of running around, chasing fraudsters within the system. I mean, do you acknowledge that that has that's shaping this political debate we're having now? Given that as you've also acknowledged, very vulnerable people who are at risk of losing services.

 

Melissa McIntosh

Well, I can't control what people on social media do, and if they've uncovered real issues, then good on them for doing it, some it needs to be addressed. But this is the complexity of the NDIS, because you've got the mass blowout of funding on one hand, you've got very vulnerable people on the other and then you've got bad actors taking advantage of all of that, and doing the wrong thing. So there's multiple layers that we I think we just need to pull the whole thing apart and start the thing again. It comes down to even quality of care and outcomes.

 

Hamish Macdonald

What do you mean, pull the whole thing apart?

Melissa McIntosh

Well, it's broken Hamish, it's not working. We're spending way too much on it, let's go back to the foundations of it and see where the cracks are, pull it apart, dig into it deeply. The Coalition is very willing to work with the Government to strengthen the system, to ensure it's doing the right thing by participants, and to stop the rorting. We hear stories about people ringing up a cleaner, getting quoted one amount, and then they say ok, I'll use my NDIS plan, and then the cost quadruples. So, there's a huge amount of overcharging in the system, which will help bring down some of the costs. We know that's $5 billion spent on fraud, and we know that the Government’s spending $60 million every year fighting participants in the Administrative Review Tribunal, and losing the cases 75% of the time, so that's waste there alone. So, savings can be made, but we also need to make sure that people are being looked after, our most vulnerable people with severe disabilities are getting the care they need, and this is what the NDIS was all about in the first place.

 

Hamish Macdonald

1300 222 702 is the number, Caroline's here from Lidcombe. What do you want to add to the conversation this morning?

 

Caroline - Lidcombe

Well, I'm really pleased you’re having this conversation. My context is that I was a union organiser representing the state government employees who are providing a lot of the home care, age care, and also group home support in the run up to the NDIS being introduced. Those people were forcibly transferred to the private sector without their consent, without the

ability to have a redundancy, and they now work overwhelmingly in much lower paid positions. So, I guess yes, we want to see what the dream of NDIS was, just as with My Aged Care and childcare we do, but in all these systems, it's been the de facto privatisation of services, and you very rarely hear of rorting by supposed participants. Now there are good providers….

 

Hamish Macdonald

Can I ask you that Caroline, when you have a system growing at this rate, don't you need the private sector to be providing services? Like you can't just roll this out as a huge, nationalised program, presumably.

 

 

 

Caroline - Lidcombe

Well, the point is, we've tried to do it without, I mean, they were warned about the workforce, problems with the lack of training of the workforce, the lack of people there, and that's been proven sadly to be correct. I mean, you have people who have no qualifications, not even a Working With Children Check providing services. When we rolled it out, the workforce issues, the workforce supply issues, were there from the beginning. They were there from the beginning and what we've done is privatize these sectors. I know there are good private providers, but overwhelmingly, those people have to answer to their shareholders and in childcare, in aged care, and now sadly in disability support services as well, these providers are just letting it rip. It’s privatisation by stealth.

 

Hamish Macdonald

I want to get a reaction to that from Melissa McIntosh, thanks for your call, Caroline. Melissa?

 

Melissa McIntosh

 I don't think she's going to get agreement from me that the Government should rule every part of everyone's life, but there is something in that that I do agree with her on, and that's around registration. There's 94% of providers are unregistered, and you don't need to have first aid, you don't need to have a Working With Vulnerable People check, there are no safeguards in place. So I believe one of the things that the Government might be doing today is strengthening registration, making more providers having to register, which we would be supportive of, but needing the detail first, because we can't just have people with an ABN looking after our most vulnerable with none of those checks and balances in place.

 

Hamish Macdonald

We'll leave it there for this morning. Melissa McIntosh, thank you very much for your time.

 

Melissa McIntosh

Thank you.