4BC Drive with Gary Hardgrave - 2 December 2025

Melissa McIntosh MP
Shadow Minister for Communications
Shadow Minister for Women
Federal Member for Lindsay

Tuesday, 2 December 2025

Transcript

4BC Drive with Gary Hardgrave

Subject: Social media ban; Age verification and Digital ID; Offshore data centres and energy requirements for data centres in Australia; Labor’s plan for AI roll-out; Net Zero survey; Immigration survey;

E&OE …

Gary Hardgrave

Well, the countdown is on, of course, December 10. Anybody under the age of 16 has to be off social media, but it seems like if you're on some of the left-wing sites, it's okay. I think. This is the trouble; no one really knows, the rules seem to be changing day by day. We recently saw the platform Twitch added to the banned list with barely any notice. And there's a growing feeling the whole process is rushed, potentially set up to fail. I saw some whispers over the weekend suggesting it was going to be put off till mid 2026. That would give us a bit of time. I mean, not even the opposition fully understands all of the details because no one's really telling them. Shadow communications minister Melissa McIntosh is the person who should know, and she's described the whole rollout as a drip feed of bad news for parents. And she joins us now to explain why she's worried. It is really uncertain times ahead for young people and parents.

Melissa McIntosh

Yeah, good afternoon. Thank you. And I've been really pushing this one. And I note in the news grab prior saying that the Minister's not flinching on this. Well, what is she doing? It is drip feeding. We're hearing now there's other social media platforms that aren't included that kids are now talking about; they'll just move across to those. And I've been warning about digital ID, and it's not only the fact that people hate the idea of having to produce their driver's license or their birth certificate if the platform can't verify their age. A big concern, and this is a huge concern for me, is that that information is being stored by a third-party provider, not the platforms themselves, and it is being stored offshore. How long will this data be stored? Private information, they said. Well, we don't really know, we don't think it will be too long. But that's the data of Australians. That's just not good enough. Why isn't the Minister asking these questions and ensuring that the ban is going to work?

Gary Hardgrave

I would want them to. I mean, I've heard Bluesky, which is the left-wing alternative to Twitter or X, hasn't been included on the list. So people are flipping over there, what's to stop, say, the predatory behaviour that this is meant to ban from being over there? I mean, everywhere you turn, Melissa McIntosh. This is the uncertainty of the whole thing. I mean, no one wants kids to be anything else other than safe. But we're rushing this. The 10th of December is what - next week!

Melissa McIntosh

Yeah, but how dare we question it? And that's what the Minister basically said in Parliament to me last week, that I don't care about Australian kids, because I'm questioning it. It's like you've just got to accept it, but you don't accept something that looks like it could potentially fail when it was meant to be, the whole intent of it was to protect Australian kids, and it is, it's coming up very fast the 10th of December, all these questions still. And you know, I really do, in the best interest of Australian children and families, we do want it to work, but there are too many gaps, too many uncertainties and the government just riding on a PR train right now.

Gary Hardgrave

I've suggested on the question of identification; we're basically going to have to have a social media license. That's really what they want. I mean, kids under the age of 16 aren't meant to drive a car. That hasn't stopped them from doing it. We know that's the case, sadly, but people under 16 are not meant to be on social media. Do we need to be really worried that all of us are going to have to get some form of licence or some form of identification to verify who we are? Because I could set up a social media account and give it to a 14 year old. Am I going to go to jail? I don't know what the rules are.

Melissa McIntosh

Yeah. And the big tech companies, they said to me, again, they’re actually quite open on this; we don’t want to risk $50 million dollar fines. And that's why if your age can't be verified for whatever reason, and there's a risk that won't, I think in the trials, 30% failure rate. Well, they will compel you to use your digital ID. So, yes, people are going to have to have some form of identification online. You can see it coming a mile off. Even though the Minister and the Government's denying it right now and think we're, you know, chicken little on this. It's happening, it's already happening. The platforms are saying it's happening. So that's what Australians, I guess, have to be prepared for. But I think it's time for Australians to put the pressure on the government. As the opposition, I can do what I can, but if Australians don't want that, then they need to let them know.

Gary Hardgrave

What about young people? Some teenagers have actually launched a High Court challenge. I mean, they're not even listening to young people. Some young people have worked this out. They realise, well, hang on, hang on, I can be trusted, my parents can oversight me. Why am I being forced into this regime not being... I have to download all the pictures I had, not being able to access the things that I used to have on my social media site. All these things are real issues for a lot of younger people.

Melissa McIntosh

Yeah, they are. And like you said just before that people will just migrate across to another platform. So young people will get around it. And I'm not surprised about the court case. I expect there'll be more to come on that front. And when there isn't clarity in the law, then that's when issues happen. Right now, there's a huge lack of clarity in the legislation and the rollouts and the powers of the eSafety Commissioner.

Gary Hardgrave

Yeah. There just seems to be too much power in the hands of people we don't really know. And even the US government, their parliament, their congress is concerned about what Australia is doing here. I think we're taking a risk. I think it's a high-risk strategy. You talk about being a high risk of failure. I don't think they've actually looked at the risk environment we're operating in. Because, Melissa, every time I've looked at technology, technology has always been miles ahead of government legislation. Government is always playing catch up on this and all they're doing now is making Australia look like a bit of a giggle in the minds of people who love a bit of freedom, who actually want families to arbitrate on this, not faceless bureaucrats.

Melissa McIntosh

Yeah. And we can't let it be just set the law and forget, and our job's done. Because as you said, there's new technologies. I'm really concerned about AI and hearing that kids have best friends that are AI bots, it's not healthy. It's actually terrible. And the inappropriate content they're seeing. So, technology will continue to emerge at a rapid pace. And kids, I'm very concerned about kids moving across to that because they're already saying that they're going to be finding ways around this, but it's a difficult one to be in. It's such a fine balance. It was the coalition that did, you know, it was our policy, Peter Dutton's policy. And there's a balance between really the intent of protecting children. But as a rollout happens, the realisation that this isn't going all that good, and you're not doing what you promised you would do. There was no talk about digital ID, these strict feeding in of platforms, which one’s in which one’s out in the confusion. It's my right as a Shadow Minister for Communications to question this, and to sort of raise the alarm bells that this may not work.

Gary Hardgrave

Indeed, you should. I mean, Peter Dutton I've known for 30 or 40 years, and I was critical of this policy when he announced it. So, this is not me just criticising it because it's a Labor policy. I think the whole thing is being muffed up. But look, you talk about AI; the government's now rolled out a brand-new big bureaucracy. Apparently, that's going to save us; bureaucracies are going to fix us! Technology is just going to keep running wild. How can bureaucracies that they set up as they've announced today; how does that work? How does government actually think it can actually outpace technology?

Melissa McIntosh

I think the bigger the government, the better for the Labor Party! It's not and I think it will be highly unionised and you know, the unions get a strong mention in this by the government. My concerns around social media and where your data is being stored, it will be offshore. The only way that we're going to be able to store the data of Australians here at home in Australia is if we can power it. The fact that data centres require, one data centre requires about the same amount of power as 50,000 homes. Well, that's an extraordinary amount of pressure on the local energy grid. So, there's no way that we can be a player in the, you know, in emerging, emerging technology, in AI, in storing data here in Australia until we get our energy policies right.

Gary Hardgrave

Yeah, it's just going to keep falling over. We've tied our shoelaces at the starting blocks in my view, because of this renewables only approach. Now look, I know you have got your feet on the ground. Your federal electorate is based around Penrith, and in the federal seat of Lindsay. You've also been talking to your constituents about immigration. It is I think the biggest hyperinflation inducing thing. It's really driving up along with electricity, along with housing. Everything seems to be all built around each other, driving up the cost of everything. What's the views of your constituents in Western Sydney about immigration?

Melissa McIntosh

Yeah, I surveyed them last night and I've had around 1,000 responses already. And this is on the back of surveying my community on their position around net zero by 2050, and because people are suffering so much under high energy prices, they were really against it, 60% no. I asked a lot of other questions and I armed myself with that going into our party room, and you know, result of that and many others, we set it on a no to net zero. So, I really believe in the power of your local community and listening to them. They have been telling me that we're really struggling. I know it because I'm out and about. I'm on our roads. You know, I've got a local hospital. We are struggling under the pressures of high immigration. So, we've got potholed roads, people in traffic, schools burning at the scenes, the hospitals, the emergency department, everything. I'm sure your listeners experience the same thing.

Gary Hardgrave

You’re describing Brisbane right now, Melissa McIntosh. That's exactly what's happening in Brisbane and South East Queensland.

Melissa McIntosh

Well, 90% of people surveyed already are saying they want us to reduce immigration. And this is in no way - and it really distresses me when it becomes a race sort of debate - because I think the left are trying to make it like that. It's not about race. It is purely about the number, the population growth, the stress on our metro, outer metro areas, our suburbs. Something needs to be done. We can't continue on this track when high energy prices, infrastructure bursting at the seams, roads that are breaking, and nothing much is getting done. So, I think this is going to be a next big issue. And I know that we're working towards having our principles out by Christmas. I’ll be feeding my community's views back into that, and I think that's really important, asking our people, our communities across the country what matters most to them.

Gary Hardgrave

Yeah, now you keep up the good work. You're welcome in the 4BC studios whenever you're in Brisbane.

[Ends]