Transcript - Insiders on ABC

Melissa McIntosh MP
Shadow Minister for Communications
Shadow Minister for Women
Federal Member for Lindsay

Sunday, 6 July 2025

Subject: Childcare safety; childcare reform; Quotas; Liberal Party reform; eSafety Commissioner recommendations; social media ban; YouTube exemption; News Bargaining Incentive; Jewish Melbourne synagogue attack

Live on Insiders with Patricia Karvelas on ABC

Patricia Karvelas

Melissa McIntosh, welcome to Insiders.

Melissa McIntosh

Thank you.

Patricia Karvelas

Are Australian children safe in our childcare system?

Melissa McIntosh

I think the government's number one job, any government, is to protect Australians, to protect our citizens. And these are our youngest Australians, vulnerable, they're babies. Something is going very wrong. And I sit before you this morning, first and foremost, as a mum who has three children who went through childcare and I had to get on a train at 6 o' clock in the morning and travel an hour to the city and my children were in daycare all day. This is the story of women right across the country. We have trust in our childcare centres, we have trust in the people that are looking after our children. It's not that we're choosing to put them there because we want to. We have to work. We have to, as you said, we have to be able to afford a living, to afford housing. There is something seriously wrong and every single parent in this country has a right to be very angry and to be asking serious questions right now of our politicians, all of our politicians, including myself.

Patricia Karvelas

Yeah, well, because there are successive governments that have failed. In fact, the previous Morrison government received the institutional abuse report which said that some of these things had to happen. Do you think that that government was also dropped the ball? The current government's taken responsibility. Was the previous government also responsible?

Melissa McIntosh

We've had review after review. We've had a Royal Commission. We could go back in in time to say that. Of course successive government should have done more, but right now we've had a serious case of abuse of young children, including babies. And the government, the Albanese government has said itself that it has been too slow. Why? Why has it been so slow to act? Why have we seen multiple accounts of child sex abuse take place before the government and all politicians get upset, cry on television and say, this is so bad when we've had these reviews and we've had parents calling out for change, we've had advocates calling for change. Something should have been done before now.

Patricia Karvelas

Now your side of politics has said that you're providing bipartisan support to the government. The government's told us that they want to put federal officers with the power to carry out spot checks. They want to have the right to take funding away from centres, but they haven't yet said that they'll introduce a national Childcare Commission to act as a watchdog. That is in the Productivity Commission's report, a version of that. Do we need that? A watchdog with teeth?

Melissa McIntosh

We want the Government to look at every single measure possible quickly as well and will back any reasonable measure when it comes to child checks, the checks that you need to do before you work in a child care centre, are they thorough enough? Are they happening once? Do they happen? How many times do they happen? And as we know it is state based, so it's not centralised in a national system. Why? Why is that so? I think every parent out there would think that is a logical thing to at least have when it comes to checks around the acceptability of people to work in our centres. But yes, you're right, there are many things that could happen.

Patricia Karvelas

Does it trouble you that centres can receive money if they're just working towards being at standard?

Melissa McIntosh

That means they're not at standard and where are the checks? What's happening to these centres when they're not at standard? And this is not just about abuse of children, this is about the standard overall of a centre. I think more needs to be done there, more needs to be done around the workforce. And of course, as you said, the government has this mandate to increase childcare in this country, to have more children in childcare. Why is that their top priority? Their top priority should be the safety of our children.

Patricia Karvelas

Do you think they should hold back on expanding the sector until you're satisfied or, you know, there is a satisfaction that the sector is a safe place for our children?

Melissa McIntosh

We shouldn't even be talking about whether the sector is a safe place for our children. I think every parent out there would be aghast to think that that is the thing that we're talking about the safety of our children. We're putting our care in others, our trust in people that have broken that trust have destroyed that trust. I think the government needs to really look at that as a priority as they work towards increasing childcare. They should be able to do both.

Patricia Karvelas

Yeah, that's a really interesting point. I want to move to your portfolio, if we can. The women part of your portfolio. You got preselected in a marginal seat, but would it be so bad to have more women around you at the Shadow Cabinet table or in the Parliament that got there with the help of quotas?

Melissa McIntosh

I think every Liberal seat in the country is a marginal seat right now. But my feelings around quotas is quotas and the talk that we're having in the media oversimplifies the issue which is around the culture in the Liberal Party and how women are treated in the Liberal Party. I think first and foremost we need to have an investigation as part of the review of the election and of the Liberal Party into the culture. What are the pathways for a woman from the grassroots through to leadership? We should be looking at mentorship programs, we should be looking at those pathways. But possibly we could look at gender balance in candidate pools to make sure that women are at least in the preselection process. But right now, people can't get people into branches within the Liberal Party. We're being blocked. I had two attempts to take me out as a sitting member of Parliament by blokes, very aggressively. So until the culture is addressed, we could have all the quotas in the world, but it will be a revolving door of women.

Patricia Karvelas

Okay, but how do you change the culture? How do you tend to do that? How can the party change the culture in a way that's meaningful?

Melissa McIntosh

I think that we need to be looking to the experts that have gone into other organisations to review the culture. It needs to be an organisational redesign, I think, done by professionals, done by experts. It is too important to be relying on instinct or people's ideology. This is not a conservative versus moderate issue. This is about the future and the sustainability of the Liberal Party. Everyone agrees, I believe, that we do need more representation of women in the Liberal Party in our parliaments and that helps ensure that we have policies that appeal to Australian women.

Patricia Karvelas

I understand you want it to be broader than just quotas, but you're not opposed to quotas.

Melissa McIntosh

I think that we need to be looking at every single mechanism right now. And when I think about quotas, I think first and foremost we could be looking at gender balance in the candidate preselection process, at least getting that right. We're going from having not very much at all to quotas. There's a lot in between and without the culture being addressed, without cultural change, as I said, quotas won't go anywhere.

Patricia Karvelas

David Cameron in the UK did something similar, the A-List, as it was known. Critics though, say it ultimately hasn't worked as fast as it should. Two decades after it was introduced. I think female representation rose to 24% by 2024 last year. 24% is not good enough, is it?

Melissa McIntosh

We need to be looking at what works for the Liberal Party of Australia in an Australian context. We had a high number of women in 1996, the Howard era, but shortly after that those women were out of Parliament because they were in marginal seats and traditionally women have been running in marginal seats. But ensuring that women can sustain a career as a parliamentarian. As I said to you just now on the first occasion after the first election and I increased my margin, those attempts to take me out. So, it's a cultural issue that is allowed to happen. There are systemic issues within the Liberal Party that means a female marginal seat holder can lose her seat because of internal warfare.

Patricia Karvelas

One idea is to have a sunset clause on quotas. I think that deals with some of the issues around some people's concerns around them. Is that something you support?

Melissa McIntosh

As I said, I think the discussion on quotas right now just really oversimplifies the issue of a need for cultural change. We should be looking at every single mechanism. Yes, let's look at quotas. Why shouldn't we?

Patricia Karvelas

Angus Taylor has basically suggested that they can be undemocratic. Do you see it that way?

Melissa McIntosh

I see it right now where we are in the depths of opposition, where we have lost great women in the party, in the parliamentary ranks, when we do have low numbers in the House of Representatives. We shouldn't be saying no to, to any mechanism. If people don't like it, let's still have that debate. That's what that is, what it's about in the Liberal Party.

Patricia Karvelas

I just want to move to some of your portfolio issues. There is a lot going on in the Communications portfolio. eSafety has released some research showing 37% of young people have encountered harmful content on YouTube. YouTube was exempt from the under-16 social media ban. The recommendation to government is that it's included. Do you think YouTube should be in the social media ban?

Melissa McIntosh

Yeah. Stepping this back a little bit. When Peter Dutton was Opposition Leader, it was a Coalition that made the call to do something about harmful content online. What kids are exposed to. And you know, I just said I'm a parent, but this is what matters about protecting our children. Once again, we're going back to government policies and failures when it comes to protecting Australian children. This time it's about protecting Australian children online. So, we're waiting now. The government decided to put forward legislation after a lot of pushing from the Coalition and advocacy groups. But there is an exemption for YouTube. Why? Why is it? Let's say it's on educational grounds, but now you see some of the other platforms putting out that they've got educational components too. It is up to the government now.

Patricia Karvelas

They haven't responded. Do you think they should put it in course?

Melissa McIntosh

Of course. Well, no, I'm saying of course they need to respond. They need to get this right for Australian children.

Patricia Karvelas

If the eSafety Commissioner is recommending it based on research, that means they should include it shouldn't they?

Melissa McIntosh

It's a logical thing to do. What makes it complex is when there's some platforms that are out and then there's some that are in. If that's going to be the case, it needs to be clear to Australian families why that's the case. Because once again, it's our Australian kids that we need to be protecting first and foremost.

Patricia Karvelas

Just a couple of other issues. The gambling ban the late Labor MP Peta Murphy called for, it's two years old now that recommendation. Peter Dutton did announce first, but it's true, before Labor, a partial ban, but it wasn't the full ban. Now that you're reviewing all your policies, is it something you're prepared to do?

Melissa McIntosh

Once again it's two years since that landmark report. The Albanese government hesitated on putting anything out before the election. There was a lot of pushback by industry and we had our policy to ban gambling advertising during live sports an hour before, during and an hour after to protect Australian families. Well, we're going to be reviewing all our policies. I think that was a really strong policy. I think the government has got that policy there. Why don't you implement that?

Patricia Karvelas

But it doesn't go as far as what the recommendation was, though, which is a blanket ban.

Melissa McIntosh

I think there needs to be - one of the other recommendations was - a strategy, a gambling strategy, I guess, for the government to pick up. And I hate to recommend another review for the government to do, because every single topic that you've talked to me about today has been stuck in a review. If it's child care, stuck in review phase. If it's online safety, it's stuck in a review phase. The government needs to start getting on with things.

Patricia Karvelas

Now the News Bargaining Icncentive was announced in December. Basically, it's like a tax on the big tech companies if they don't come to deals with the media companies to fund journalism. When do you want to see this happen?

Melissa McIntosh

Here's another review. We're waiting for the government on their position with the negotiations around bringing all the platforms to the table. This is around protecting Australian news content and ensuring that big multinational platforms pay for the content that is on their platform. We were really strong on that when we were in government. The Coalition saying that we're not going to be bullied by these big international companies.

Patricia Karvelas

But they then withdrew from your deal. And so, the government's come up with an alternative. Is it a good alternative and should they get on with implementing it?

Melissa McIntosh

Well, the government needs to get on with implementing what they've promised. And right now we're all waiting, the platforms are waiting and most importantly, the news organisations. Not only big news organisations, but our smaller independent organisations that are reliant.

Patricia Karvelas

Some of them are losing deals already

Melissa McIntosh

They're losing deals. There's uncertainty. They're losing staff. This was to help also protect, you know, balanced journalism in Australia, investigative journalism, and to ensure that we maintain that really strong part of our democracy which is so important.

Patricia Karvelas

Just finally, a really disturbing story on Friday night. It's led to one arrest already for an alleged arson attack. An arson attack happened, but that somebody has now been arrested. There's also a restaurant attack. That was an Israeli restaurant in Melbourne. So, a spate of anti-Jewish attacks. The Prime Minister says the full force of the law should be used to come down on all perpetrators. Isn't that the right response?

Melissa McIntosh

Why again, why are we in this position? An attack like this on the Jewish community, as abhorrent as it is, is also an attack on all Australians. It's an attack on our values, it's attack on our social cohesion. There are wonderful Jewish people right throughout history that have contributed to many making Australia the place it is today, including a wonderful Jessica Fox in my community whose Mum's Jewish, including my former colleague Josh Frydenberg. People that have made contributions in sport, in politics, in philanthropy, doing so much. And this isn't an isolated attack, this has been ongoing. Something needs to be done. Excuse me.

Patricia Karvelas

That's all right. Yeah, it is, and the community is quite fearful. But all of the resources of counterterrorism and the police are there. What more could the government.

Melissa McIntosh

What is the government doing?

Patricia Karvelas

What could they do?

Melissa McIntosh

There's been a letter that's been sitting there for three weeks from the Leader of the Opposition, Sussan Ley, from Andrew Hastie, the Shadow Minister for Home affairs, and from Julian Leeser, imploring the government to protect the Jewish community of more security in light of what's been going on in the Middle East. And they have not received a response from the Prime Minister. What about National Cabinet? Why isn't he convening National Cabinet and bringing the states together with urgency to address this issue? There's a number of things that the government could be doing yet. We're sitting here today discussing another horrible attack where there are kids inside the synagogue. The person lit the synagogue a place of worship when families were inside. That is such a disgusting attack, a hateful attack on Australians.

Patricia Karvelas

Melissa McIntosh, thank you so much for joining us on Insiders.