Radio National Breakfast with Sally Sara - 5 December 2025

Melissa McIntosh MP
Shadow Minister for Communications
Shadow Minister for Women
Federal Member for Lindsay

Friday, 5 December 2025

Transcript

Radio National Breakfast with Sally Sara

Subject: Social media ban; Age verification and Digital ID; Australian’s data stored off-shore by social media platforms; Cost of Minister Anika Wells’ New York trip in wake of Optus Triple Zero outage.

E&OE …

Sally Sara

Melissa McIntosh is the Shadow Minister for Communications and joins me now. Melissa McIntosh, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.

Melissa McIntosh

Thank you. Good morning.

Sally Sara

As we begin moving closer to this December 10th, when the social media ban will officially begin, in your view, what's been missing in the preparation?

Melissa McIntosh

Thanks. I've been warning about the gaps in the rollout for a long time now, and the intent to protect our children is something we all want. It’s not about protecting kids, it's around the success of this ban. And what even constitutes success, because that's not clear from the government and the Minister for Communications. There are platforms being put on a list, which is the Minister is now calling a dynamic list, has been very slow and hit and miss. And we're hearing now that kids are just migrating across to lesser-known social media platforms. So going off Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and going to platforms that most of your listeners probably hadn't heard of because I hadn't heard of them before a couple of weeks ago. But it means that they're not actually getting off social media. So that's a concern. I'm also concerned about digital identification.

Sally Sara

What would you do about that, that issue? Because it is in the tech space, things move faster than regulation and legislation. If kids are moving on to other platforms, how do you think that should be dealt with?

Melissa McIntosh

Well, I think these platforms have been in existence. They then haven't just been created as a solution to have new platforms for kids. So, I think the government should have been more, along with the eSafety Commissioner, more thorough in the initial list. It was confusing, and it's been confusing to parents, it's been confusing to the platforms. And by no means am I standing up for the big tech companies here, but there's been a lack of consistency, even the confusion around YouTube not being included then included and parents not knowing if it meant YouTube Kids as well, all sorts of things like that. So, I think clear communication, a clear pathway should have been the top priority for the government because we want to protect kids. I fear, and I very much fear that this ban could fail. And what next? And I don't have an answer if your next question would be what would you do next? I don't have an answer for what next. It’s very complex, but this is why the government needs to ensure that this works.

Sally Sara

So, you don't have an answer as to how this should be rolled out in a more effective way?

Melissa McIntosh

No, what happens if this fails? What happens if this ban fails and kids aren't offline? I want to know from the government what their plan is, because everyone is waiting for this ban to work. So, if it's not working, how will they fix that, when there's such big holes and the implementation hasn't even been complete yet? It is a big concern. And as I was saying around digital ID, the Minister is at pains to declare that I was dog whistling on this in her Press Club speech the other day, but I'm just raising legitimate concerns. She, along with the Prime Minister and the eSafety Commissioner, has promised Australians they wouldn't be required to have digital ID. So, if the age verification technology, which is a third-party provider, doesn't work and it can't verify someone's age, the platforms will compel people to either produce their driver's licence, or their birth certificate. That data is then stored offshore, and we do not know how long people's private information is going to be stored in these offshore data centres. That is also a big concern.

Sally Sara

The Minister for Communications, Anika Wells, says the government isn't chasing perfection, but it's chasing a meaningful difference. Do you agree that's a goal worth pursuing? There might be some holes here, but this is setting community expectations. Like, kids are not supposed to be drinking alcohol before the age of 18. Some do, but it sets a community expectation.

Melissa McIntosh

Well, I think it's a bit of a backstep in language, if anything. I also know that she was saying everyone please be patient, but the government set this deadline on December 10th. The age verification technology, it's technology that hasn't really been used before. They should have been more thorough in the setting of the deadline and ensuring that it was going to be closer to perfect than closer to failing right now. And I was really critical of the Minister leaving her post during a Triple Zero crisis to go overseas to do a PR exercise to promote something that hadn't yet been successful. So, I think there was a big issue in that, and I fear that the PR part of this seems to be more important to the Minister than the success in the ban.

Sally Sara

What further action would you like to see?

Melissa McIntosh

I would like the ban to work for the benefit of Australian children. It's my job as a strong opposition to pressure the government when things aren't working and to ask questions. And these are questions that - I'm not making these questions up myself. Australians are contacting me in the hundreds every single day. My office is getting phone calls, I'm getting emails about people that are genuinely concerned. They're concerned about their kids moving across to other platforms and they're concerned about having to produce digital ID. I want the government to address these concerns first and foremost. And in her Press Club speech the other day, the Minister did not address these concerns.

Sally Sara

Is it the role of the opposition to put forward alternatives?

Melissa McIntosh

Well, we'll have alternative policies, of course, leading into the next election. This was a policy that the Coalition first started. I can't back away from that. It was the Peter Dutton policy, who was very committed to it, but it was a policy intent. We didn't get to the stage of the rollout of this policy. This is on the government. They made the decision on how this would be rolled out, the use of age verification, the deadline setting.

Sally Sara

You've criticised Communications Minister Anika Wells trip to New York last month to talk about the social media ban with world leaders. Has she broken any rules when it comes to travel entitlements?

Melissa McIntosh

You're referring to the cost of her travel. That's going to be something that will have to be looked into deeper, I think. So, the cost of the Minister and her staff's travel, $100,000 in flights has only been made public because of the Senate process and questions on notice. So, you can look at a first-class flight leaving tomorrow and it comes nowhere near the price of what was paid for those flights to New York. So, I think that needs to be clarified. And then while she was there, there was a lavish event held, $70,000, hosted by the Minister and put on by her department. And they're a big cost. My criticism has been long before the revelation of the costs of her trip; it was more around leaving your post during a crisis.

Sally Sara

The Minister's trip to New York was delayed. The crisis was the Optus outage. Has the Minister broken any rules when it comes to travel entitlements? As far as you can see.

Melissa McIntosh

That will have to be something she answers. It's not up to me to declare that; there's a Finance Department process. There's questions that she will have to answer herself.

Sally Sara

Figures released during Senate estimates show that Anika Wells and her Deputy Chief of Staff and Department Secretary for online safety collectively billed taxpayers for around $94,000. Is that unacceptable?

Melissa McIntosh

Well, if you look into flights, what they cost, I don't think any of your listeners would fly to the US and have to pay what, 30 odd thousand dollars each. So, I think the price of the flights, yes. Are questionable. It's going to be up to the Minister. There's the breaking the rules part, and then there's the pub test part as well, where people think politicians are spending too much taxpayer's money unnecessarily.

Sally Sara

Would you expect that if flights have been rebooked because of a delay, that they may be more expensive at the last minute and that accommodation during a sitting of the United Nations General Assembly in New York may also be more expensive at that time?

Melissa McIntosh

Well, there's no flights that cost, you know, if you go online and you book a flight tomorrow, that's first class. I don't think any of the flights that would come up would cost that much. So, the Minister is going to...

Sally Sara

Have you checked?

Melissa McIntosh

Yes. I've had people, the public check as well, and contact my office! People don't like it when it seems like exorbitant amounts of money are being paid unnecessarily, like on flights. But as I said, the Minister shouldn't have left her post in the first place. That's the biggest issue I have. You talk about the crisis. She delayed it, but the crisis was still going on. All she did was hold one or two press conferences and then went off overseas. The Prime Minister was there in New York. He's representative of the country. He could have been the one to represent our country on this issue. The Minister should have stayed and looked after the Australians that were suffering and that were confused around the Triple Zero crisis at that time.

Sally Sara

Melissa McIntosh, thank you for your time this morning.

Melissa McIntosh

Thank you.

[Ends]